C++Talk.NET C++ language newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  The best OOP languages?? Goto page 1, 2  Next          C++Talk.NET Forum Index -> C++ language (comp.lang.c++) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message John Swan Guest Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:55 pm    Post subject: The best OOP languages?? Which one is best? Java is slow but can be ran on every machine. C# kicks the crap out of MFC but can only be run on Microsoft platforms. C++ is class but is harder work so ultimately makes you better. If someone wanted to learn an oop based language which one would you choose???? -- Check out my personal homepage at: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.a.swan/index.htm Back to top Cy Edmunds Guest Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? "John Swan" <j.a.swan (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Which one is best? Java is slow but can be ran on every machine. C# kicks the crap out of MFC but can only be run on Microsoft platforms. C++ is class but is harder work so ultimately makes you better. If someone wanted to learn an oop based language which one would you choose???? -- Check out my personal homepage at: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.a.swan/index.htm I wouldn't pick an OOP language. I would try to find the language most suitable for whatever I wanted to do, OOP or not. I mostly do scientific and engineering software, so I like C++ for its speed and power. I sometimes use OOP features of C++ but actually use generic programming more often. Unlike OOP, generic programming has shown a real ability to write algorithms which don't depend on data types or containers, using the very un-OOP-like method of completely separating code from data. I like Python for prototyping and "glue" code. I use other languages too (my current project uses no less than seven languages!) but those are the only two I really like. -- Cy http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/ Back to top Pete Becker Guest Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:34 pm    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? John Swan wrote: Quote: Java is slow but can be ran on every machine. Well, it can be run on every machine that it can be run on. If you don't have a VM for your machine, you can't run it there. Unlike, say, C++, which can only be run on a machine that you have a compiler for. -- Pete Becker Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com) Back to top usr.root@gmail.com Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:03 am    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? John Swan 写é�“： Quote: Which one is best? Java is slow but can be ran on every machine. C# kicks the crap out of MFC but can only be run on Microsoft platforms. C++ is class but is harder work so ultimately makes you better. If someone wanted to learn an oop based language which one would you choose???? -- Check out my personal homepage at: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.a.swan/index.htm c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ c++ Back to top __PPS__ Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:01 am    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? Did you find the right answer, Swan?? http://tinyurl.com/cxn8b Back to top Phlip Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:17 am    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? John Swan wrote: Quote: Java is slow but can be ran on every machine. C# kicks the crap out of MFC but can only be run on Microsoft platforms. C++ is class but is harder work so ultimately makes you better. Those both use static typing, and have pitiful support for block closures. Quote: If someone wanted to learn an oop based language which one would you choose???? http://whytheluckystiff.net/articles/wearingRubySlippersToWork.html ;-) -- Phlip http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!! Back to top Greg Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? Phlip wrote: Quote: John Swan wrote: Java is slow but can be ran on every machine. C# kicks the crap out of MFC but can only be run on Microsoft platforms. C++ is class but is harder work so ultimately makes you better. Those both use static typing, and have pitiful support for block closures. Not to mention that neither can drive, go to the grocery store, do laundry or do anything else that could be considered remotely useful. Greg Back to top Niels Dybdahl Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? Quote: Java is slow but can be ran on every machine. C# kicks the crap out of MFC but can only be run on Microsoft platforms. C++ is class but is harder work so ultimately makes you better. If someone wanted to learn an oop based language which one would you choose???? I would choose one with a good debugger, because a debugger can be very good at showing beginners what is going on. I would also choose a language with garbage collection, because manual cleaning code is hard to get right for beginners. Beginners should care about the problem they are solving and not about housekeeping. So both Java and C# fall in this category. Others might also (but C++ does not). BTW Java is not slow if you have enough RAM. Niels Dybdahl Back to top peter.koch.larsen@gmail.c Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? Niels Dybdahl wrote: [snip] Quote: If someone wanted to learn an oop based language which one would you choose???? I would choose one with a good debugger, because a debugger can be very good at showing beginners what is going on. I would also choose a language with garbage collection, because manual cleaning code is hard to get right for beginners. Beginners should care about the problem they are solving and not about housekeeping. You mean housekeeping of memory? Whenever I see Java and C# code, I notice an awful lot of try-catch-finally statements. Seeing a well-written C+ program I notice the try-catch is only in the few places where the exceptions have to be reported. To me this is an indication that it is C# and Java that has problems with resource-handling. Quote: So both Java and C# fall in this category. Others might also (but C++ does not). Why not? Just use garbage collection in C++. There are a few things you're not allowed to do but that is all exotic stuff such as xoring pointers or writing those pointers to disk - expecting them to be valid when you read them back in. Quote: BTW Java is not slow if you have enough RAM. Niels Dybdahl /Peter Back to top dominic.connor@gmail.com Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? I think neither C# nor Javs have yet caught up with C++ as general purpose languages, though of course you want to look at what you're trying to do before choosingf a language. If you're living entirely in the MS world, and like most people your code wil never have to move platform than C# is not a bad choice. Speaking as a headhunter in finance I will have to say that C++ jobs do pay really a lot better than C# or Java, a package of £100K in London is entirely realisitic. Dominic @ PaulDominic.com Back to top Havatcha Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? [email]dominic.connor (AT) gmail (DOT) com[/email] wrote: Quote: I think neither C# nor Javs have yet caught up with C++ as general purpose languages, though of course you want to look at what you're trying to do before choosingf a language. If you're living entirely in the MS world, and like most people your code wil never have to move platform than C# is not a bad choice. Speaking as a headhunter in finance I will have to say that C++ jobs do pay really a lot better than C# or Java, a package of £100K in London is entirely realisitic. Really.....? You got any good links? Back to top Phlip Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? peter.koch.larsen wrote: Quote: You mean housekeeping of memory? Whenever I see Java and C# code, I notice an awful lot of try-catch-finally statements. Seeing a well-written C+ program I notice the try-catch is only in the few places where the exceptions have to be reported. To me this is an indication that it is C# and Java that has problems with resource-handling. Yay! It is supremely ironic that Java is marketed to your boss as "a language where you won't have all those dangling pointers and memory overruns like C++ causes"... (And C#'s conceptual and strategic merits have no discussion beyond its obvious origin as MS's private Java clone...) dominic.connor wrote: Quote: Speaking as a headhunter in finance I will have to say that C++ jobs do pay really a lot better than C# or Java, a package of £100K in London is entirely realisitic. I currently have an equivalent senior role writing test scripts in Ruby. I picked it because I know I can go very fast and get the job done, without mucking around. Put another way, if I let my boss pick the language, it might slow me down, so I have a choice between slowly taking their money, or rapidly making a major impact. -- Phlip http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!! Back to top Niels Dybdahl Guest Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? Quote: If someone wanted to learn an oop based language which one would you choose???? I would choose one with a good debugger, because a debugger can be very good at showing beginners what is going on. I would also choose a language with garbage collection, because manual cleaning code is hard to get right for beginners. Beginners should care about the problem they are solving and not about housekeeping. You mean housekeeping of memory? Whenever I see Java and C# code, I notice an awful lot of try-catch-finally statements. I guess those try-catch blocks are used for cleaning up database connections or file handles. Thats where I usually use try-catch in Java. One of the most annoying omissions in C++ is finally. But fortunately it can be solved in most cases with a destructor, but in some cases you have to invent a class for that purpose which does not make the code more readable. Quote: Seeing a well-written C+ program I notice the try-catch is only in the few places where the exceptions have to be reported. That is true, but beginners seldom write well-written C++-applications. Quote: To me this is an indication that it is C# and Java that has problems with resource-handling. C# and Java have solved handling memory resources very well, but C++'s destructors are very nice for handling all other resources. But again beginners are not likely to clean up resources correctly. Niels Dybdahl Back to top Howard Guest Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? "John Swan" <j.a.swan (AT) ntlworld (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Which one is best? Java is slow but can be ran on every machine. C# kicks the crap out of MFC but can only be run on Microsoft platforms. C++ is class but is harder work so ultimately makes you better. If someone wanted to learn an oop based language which one would you choose???? I always liked Delphi. A great RAD tool, and easy to learn. But, I get paid a lot more to do c++ work, so guess which I'm using now...? -Howard Back to top Stewart Gordon Guest Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: The best OOP languages?? John Swan wrote: Quote: Which one is best? Java is slow but can be ran on every machine. You mean it can run on your washing machine? :-) Quote: C# kicks the crap out of MFC but can only be run on Microsoft platforms. C++ is class but is harder work so ultimately makes you better. If someone wanted to learn an oop based language which one would you choose???? D http://www.digitalmars.com/d/ Stewart. -- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS/M d- s:- C++@ a->--- UB@ P+ L E@ W++@ N+++ o K-@ w++@ O? M V? PS- PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++>++++ h-- r-- !y ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit. 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