C++Talk.NET C++ language newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Learning the new C++ Goto page 1, 2  Next          C++Talk.NET Forum Index -> C++ Language (Moderated) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message arindam.mukerjee@gmail.co Guest Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:02 pm    Post subject: Learning the new C++ Some time back I read a posting on this group "Is Effective C++ still useful". Scott Meyers' in reply to one of the postings actually revealed a tentative TOC of the 3rd edition of EC++ (which is due for release some time soon??). I have been working with C++ on Win32 systems and admittedly I have not kept myself updated on the evolution of C++ as a standard or technology (recently I tried some old style K&R C). And I want to start on the road to making amends for these foibles by trying to learn a few things. I have been intrigued by Boost and TRL/TRI (???) finding mention in that TOC. I mean intrigued by the fact that they are important enough and I almost never and absolutely never heard of Boost and TRI (TRL??) respectively. I remember reading an article from C++ Report by Herb Sutter in More C++ Gems, where he said "Familiarize yourself with the BOOSE Programming Environment". Is BOOST a descendant of BOOSE with a larger brain size and an opposable thumb? The name sounds promising. And yes, what is TRI (TRL??) ?? Sorry for asking so many seriously silly questions. But my Alzheimer's is back for a few minutes and I am supposed to be asking a few more of them. My newsagent told me that C++ Report has ceased publication. Is that true? I have no knowledge about these publications (cuj, cppreport et al.) and planned to subscribe to them. So I am a little nonplussed. Cheers, Arindam [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top David Abrahams Guest Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:50 am    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ [email]arindam.mukerjee (AT) gmail (DOT) com[/email] writes: Quote: I have been intrigued by Boost and TRL/TRI (???) finding mention in that TOC. I mean intrigued by the fact that they are important enough and I almost never and absolutely never heard of Boost and TRI (TRL??) respectively. I remember reading an article from C++ Report by Herb Sutter in More C++ Gems, where he said "Familiarize yourself with the BOOSE Programming Environment". Is BOOST a descendant of BOOSE with a larger brain size and an opposable thumb? The name sounds promising. And yes, what is TRI (TRL??) ?? TR1 == the C++ Standard Committee's _1_st _T_echnical _R_eport. (http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/) Boost == http://www.boost.org I don't know what BOOSE might be, but I can tell you where the name "Boost" came from. It originally came out of a hallway joke when Java was at the height of its hype. When considering how to generate that hype for C++, someone thought that beverages might be the key. "Booze," of course, is better than "java." "Booze" later morphed into "Boost." At least, that's how I heard it. it's-still-not-april-yet-ly y'rs, dave -- Dave Abrahams Boost Consulting www.boost-consulting.com [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top Pete Becker Guest Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ [email]arindam.mukerjee (AT) gmail (DOT) com[/email] wrote: Quote: TRL/TRI (???) It's TR1: that's a digit one at the end. Officially it's the "Technical Report on C++ Library Extensions". Since there could be another one later, it's referred to informally as TR1. The latest revision is available here: www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2005/n1745.pdf -- Pete Becker Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com) [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top John Ratcliffe Guest Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ Quote: Some time back I read a posting on this group "Is Effective C++ still useful". Scott Meyers' in reply to one of the postings actually revealed a tentative TOC of the 3rd edition of EC++ (which is due for release some time soon??). I have been working with C++ on Win32 systems and admittedly I have not kept myself updated on the evolution of C++ as a standard or technology (recently I tried some old style K&R C). And I want to start on the road to making amends for these foibles by trying to learn a few things. I guess you have spent a lot of using Microsoft libraries like ATL and MFC. These are not "C++ the language" but you can't completely ignore them if you have had to develop with VC++. The venerable VC++ 6.0 lagged behind C++ standards. If my guesses are true then you will probably need to start by getting a more standards compliant version of C++ and become familiar with the use of libraries and features that were not particularly well supported under VC++ 6.0, like the STL and templates. You can download the MS C++ for Visual Studio 2005 for free. I assume that this is at least as standards compliant as VC++ 7.1. Be aware that this compiler supports a lot of non-Standard C++ features included for .NET and you will need to run it under the .NET Framework. If you want to start by focussing more on using Standard C++ better, then get hold of the free Gnu C++ compiler that comes in various disguises...MinGW, cygwin or with just about any professional linux distribution. Quote: I have been intrigued by Boost and TRL/TRI (???) finding mention in that TOC. I mean intrigued by the fact that they are important enough and I almost never and absolutely never heard of Boost and TRI (TRL??) respectively. I remember reading an article from C++ Report by Herb Sutter in More C++ Gems, where he said "Familiarize yourself with the BOOSE Programming Environment". Is BOOST a descendant of BOOSE with a larger brain size and an opposable thumb? The name sounds promising. And yes, what is TRI (TRL??) ?? I recall the BOOSE article and I am sure I still have it somewhere but it had nothing to with BOOST. BOOSE == "Bjarne's Object-Oriented Software Environment"(?) IIRC and I think it was (or is?) a (C++)++. BOOST is a library of C++ utilities and tools that are written by many folk who are closely involved with the C++ standards. Content from the library is being put forward for inclusion in the next round of C++ Standards. BOOST is worth getting to know. It contains useful stuff you might want to make part of your toolkit. TR1 I think refers to the Technical Report that is the proposal for the latest Standards, including the BOOST contributions. Quote: Sorry for asking so many seriously silly questions. But my Alzheimer's is back for a few minutes and I am supposed to be asking a few more of them. My newsagent told me that C++ Report has ceased publication. Is that true? I have no knowledge about these publications (cuj, cppreport et al.) and planned to subscribe to them. So I am a little nonplussed. C++ Report has been defunct for some time. The C/C++ Users Journal is a decent alternative. If you wish to keep up with current use of "Standard" C++ then this is a good publication to read. If you are focussed on the Microsoft world then there are articles about using Microsoft's C++ and .NET in the MSDN journal. Note that this magazine is not dedicated solely to C++ so expect only 1 or 2 articles per issue, max. To bring yourselve up to date you might wish to invest in the latest versions of the C++ Standard manual and various publications around it from Bjarne Stoustrup. Not always light reading though. If you wish to learn more about using C++ then books by Scott Meyers, Herb Sutter and Alexender Alexandrescu are worth checking out. These are written in nice idea size chunks that you can dip into during your Alzheimer's-free moments. They contain a lot of good ideas, discussion and examples on using C++ better. Get the most recent editions, but read them critically. Even gurus are not omnipotent! :-) John [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top Carl Barron Guest Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ In article <1111750243.687053.319160 (AT) l41g2000cwc (DOT) googlegroups.com>, <arindam.mukerjee (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: have been intrigued by Boost and TRL/TRI (???) finding mention in that TOC. I mean intrigued by the fact that they are important enough and I almost never and absolutely never heard of Boost and TRI (TRL??) respectively. I remember reading an article from C++ Report by Herb Sutter in More C++ Gems, where he said "Familiarize yourself with the BOOSE Programming Environment". Is BOOST a descendant of BOOSE with a larger brain size and an opposable thumb? The name sounds promising. And yes, what is TRI (TRL??) ?? Boost is a publicly available library of libraries [www.boost.org] that enhance the standard C++ library and add many useful features and some better mousetraps than some standard library items. I don't think boost has anything to do do with boose,but I have not heard of bosse before. TR1 is technical report #1 on the C++ library. It contains some fixes to the standard, addittions of some items like unsorted [hashed] containers, generalized functors,more smart pointers, etc. Yes C++Report is history. You might want to visit CUJ's experts forum on cuj.com. It has some interesting articles by some former contributers to C++report... [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top Alf P. Steinbach Guest Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ * Pete Becker: Quote: arindam.mukerjee (AT) gmail (DOT) com wrote: TRL/TRI (???) It's TR1: that's a digit one at the end. Officially it's the "Technical Report on C++ Library Extensions". Since there could be another one later, it's referred to informally as TR1. The latest revision is available here: www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2005/n1745.pdf Thanks for that reference. I note that there's a kind of typelist, Very Good, although it seems rather strange to have a standard library class that _requires_ special core language support, instead of defining such core language support ('tuple_size' and 'tuple_element' would more naturally, IMHO, be language features with names decoupled from "tuple", and free template type arg list denoted by ellipsis). On the other hand, still lacking pi and e constants, UnGood. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is it such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top Pete Becker Guest Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:21 am    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ Carl Barron wrote: Quote: TR1 is technical report #1 on the C++ library. It contains some fixes to the standard I hope not. <g> Technical Reports do not affect the standard. TR1 is an indication of the direction we're thinking of going. There's a good chance that something along the lines of what's in TR1 will be added to the standard in a future revision. -- Pete Becker Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com) [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top Pete Becker Guest Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ Alf P. Steinbach wrote: Quote: I note that there's a kind of typelist, Very Good, although it seems rather strange to have a standard library class that _requires_ special core language support, instead of defining such core language support I'm not sure what you're saying. tuple can be implemented in standard-conforming C++. No language support required. ('tuple_size' and Quote: 'tuple_element' would more naturally, IMHO, be language features with names decoupled from "tuple", and free template type arg list denoted by ellipsis). Another perspective is that if you can do it in the library you don't need to change the language. Quote: On the other hand, still lacking pi and e constants, UnGood. Nobody proposed 'em. -- Pete Becker Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com) [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top arindam.mukerjee@gmail.co Guest Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:24 am    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ Thanks indeed John, and everyone else. I have been trying out the gnu C++ compiler on my Linux box. It's a lot different from MS VC++ 6.0 but it's good fun. I still feel the VC++ 6.0 IDE is one of the best I have worked with. The .NET IDE is too heavy and not nearly as minimal and nifty. I have been through Scott Meyers' EC++ and MEC++. I am onto his Effective STL. I have also gone through Herb Sutters' articles, all of them that came in More C++ Gems. Would look up Alexandrescu - Modern C++ Design or something like that is it? Thanks indeed. Cheers, Arindam [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top christopher diggins Guest Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ Quote: I have been intrigued by Boost and TRL/TRI (???) finding mention in that TOC. I mean intrigued by the fact that they are important enough and I almost never and absolutely never heard of Boost and TRI (TRL??) respectively. I remember reading an article from C++ Report by Herb Sutter in More C++ Gems, where he said "Familiarize yourself with the BOOSE Programming Environment". Is BOOST a descendant of BOOSE with a larger brain size and an opposable thumb? The name sounds promising. And yes, what is TRI (TRL??) ?? Boose was an april fool's joke from 1998: Check out: http://www.gotw.ca/publications/mill03.htm . Some good quotes: "Improving Teamwork. BOOSE is inherently team-oriented. It encourages greater-than-usual camaraderie on software development projects, although excessive fraternization is sometimes a problem." " Polymorphism. BOOSE has unparalleled support for polymorphism. No matter how well you know a developer, chances are that BOOSE will reveal another side to his or her personality." "Different developers have been found to respond to BOOSE in different ways, and it's true that some developers have less-than-positive reactions: some can become angry and irritable; others have been observed to engage in unusual and risky programming behaviour; a few become downright unpredictable." I admit though, Herb even had me fooled for a second there. Christopher Diggins http://www.ootl.org [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top Alf P. Steinbach Guest Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ * Pete Becker: Quote: Alf P. Steinbach wrote: I note that there's a kind of typelist, Very Good, although it seems rather strange to have a standard library class that _requires_ special core language support, instead of defining such core language support I'm not sure what you're saying. tuple can be implemented in standard-conforming C++. No language support required. Please explain. I don't understand this. Or, I'm misunderstanding something. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is it such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top Pete Becker Guest Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:43 am    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ Alf P. Steinbach wrote: Quote: * Pete Becker: Alf P. Steinbach wrote: I note that there's a kind of typelist, Very Good, although it seems rather strange to have a standard library class that _requires_ special core language support, instead of defining such core language support I'm not sure what you're saying. tuple can be implemented in standard-conforming C++. No language support required. Please explain. I don't understand this. Or, I'm misunderstanding something. I'm not sure how to say it any differently: tuple is a template specified in TR1. The code to implement it can be written without relying on any "special" language features, just plain old C++. Why do you say that it "_requires_ special core language support"? -- Pete Becker Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com) [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top David Abrahams Guest Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ Pete Becker <petebecker (AT) acm (DOT) org> writes: Quote: Alf P. Steinbach wrote: * Pete Becker: Alf P. Steinbach wrote: I note that there's a kind of typelist, Very Good, although it seems rather strange to have a standard library class that _requires_ special core language support, instead of defining such core language support I'm not sure what you're saying. tuple can be implemented in standard-conforming C++. No language support required. Please explain. I don't understand this. Or, I'm misunderstanding something. I'm not sure how to say it any differently: tuple is a template specified in TR1. The code to implement it can be written without relying on any "special" language features, just plain old C++. Why do you say that it "_requires_ special core language support"? The design is based on some "plain old" C++ code we've had working in the Boost libraries for years now, FWIW. If you need proof, just go look there. -- Dave Abrahams Boost Consulting www.boost-consulting.com [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top Pete Becker Guest Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ David Abrahams wrote: Quote: The design is based on some "plain old" C++ code we've had working in the Boost libraries for years now, FWIW. If you need proof, just go look there. I don't need proof: I've implemented it. -- Pete Becker Dinkumware, Ltd. (http://www.dinkumware.com) [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ] Back to top Craig Nunemaker Guest Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Learning the new C++ I have switched from Microsoft VC++ 6.0 to Dev-C++ produced by Bloodshed software and licenced open source. It uses the mingw gnu compiler 3.4.2 and has a very advanced IDE that makes it well worth a look. The only problem I have had is that it's Class Browser is not as advanced as MSDEV (for instance every now and then it will list a class function twice-once for its declaration and once for definition). I also missed the globals folder on MSDEV where all the functions that didn't have a class were put in a special folder like under the class browser. On the plus it can fully import your ms projects. http://www.bloodshed.net [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. 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