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Tom Seim
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 Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:32 am Post subject: Just wasted $60 on Borland |
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Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
Don't waste your money on this crap!
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John Harrison
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland |
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"Tom Seim" <soar2morrow (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
Don't waste your money on this crap!
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Have to wonder why you paid any money for a compiler at all.
Assuming you are running Windows then free compiler from Microsoft, or free
compiler from Cygwin.
John
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John Harrison
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland |
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"Tom Seim" <soar2morrow (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!).
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LOL, either the registration process is more tortuous than I can imagine or
you meant to say 'F**KING try again later'.
john
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Steven T. Hatton
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:39 am Post subject: [OT]Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland |
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Tom Seim wrote:
| Quote: | Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
Don't waste your money on this crap!
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Ur...uh... If you can't get it registered, then I will assume you can't run
it. If you can't run it, then you don't know if it's "crappy"[*] or not.
Unless of course you already knew that. In that case why would you fork
over $60 for something you already know is "crap"?
BTW. what are they selling for $60?
[*] Just as an historical note. The use of the word crap to denote feces is
due to the name of the inventor of the toilet being named Crapp(IIRC). See:
_Unearthing_Atlantis_ by Charles R Pellegrino
--
"If our hypothesis is about anything and not about some one or more
particular things, then our deductions constitute mathematics. Thus
mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what we
are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true." - Bertrand
Russell
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Karl Heinz Buchegger
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland |
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John Harrison wrote:
| Quote: |
"Tom Seim" <soar2morrow (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:6c71b322.0410142032.7aac8cfb (AT) posting (DOT) google.com...
Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
Don't waste your money on this crap!
Have to wonder why you paid any money for a compiler at all.
Assuming you are running Windows then free compiler from Microsoft, or free
compiler from Cygwin.
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or even free compiler from Borland :-)
--
Karl Heinz Buchegger
[email]kbuchegg (AT) gascad (DOT) at[/email]
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JKop
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland |
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Tom Seim posted:
| Quote: | Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
Don't waste your money on this crap!
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I've never paid for software.
....and I've got WinXP Pro, Microsoft Office, Microsoft Visual Studio 2003
..NET, among many many many others.
-JKop
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Tom Widmer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland |
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On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:08:01 GMT, JKop <NULL (AT) NULL (DOT) NULL> wrote:
| Quote: | Tom Seim posted:
Tried to install their crappy s/w and it kicked me out of their
tortuous registration process (try F**KING again later!). What do they
think, that this is a $5,000 s/w package?
Don't waste your money on this crap!
I've never paid for software.
...and I've got WinXP Pro, Microsoft Office, Microsoft Visual Studio 2003
.NET, among many many many others.
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Big man. You're taking food from the mouths of users of this
newsgroup, many of whom rely on software sales to pay their
salaries...
Tom
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JKop
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland |
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| Quote: | Big man. You're taking food from the mouths of users of this
newsgroup, many of whom rely on software sales to pay their
salaries...
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If this were the 3rd World, then yes I'd feel guilty. But this is the 1st
World - if some-one has trouble eating then it's there own financial
management problem!
Anyway, I'm only 17. I've only gotten a full-time job within the last few
months; if I were to pay for all software and books I've used to gain the
knowledge I now have, then I wouldn't have been able to start learning to
programme at the age of 12 as I did. I myself believe that that is a bad
thing. If a 10 year old said to me "I want to programme, but I don't have
$500 for Visual Studio or money to buy a C++ book.", then all my ill-
feelings about "stealing" software go out the window. Whip out the CD-R's
and head down the library.
-JKop
Now that I *do* have the money, I wouldn't at all mind paying for software
and books. But at the same time, if BearShare lists "VisualStudio2003.zip",
then... hmm... I
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Richard Herring
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:52 am Post subject: [even more OT] (was: [OT]Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland) |
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In message <I5Wdnb4R0cx6__LcRVn-vQ (AT) speakeasy (DOT) net>, Steven T. Hatton
<susudata (AT) setidava (DOT) kushan.aa> writes
| Quote: |
[*] Just as an historical note. The use of the word crap to denote feces is
due to the name of the inventor of the toilet being named Crapp(IIRC).
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YRI. Thomas Crapper made some minor improvements to its plumbing. He
certainly didn't invent it.
http://www.theplumber.com/crapper.html
| Quote: | See:
_Unearthing_Atlantis_ by Charles R Pellegrino
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Why?
--
Richard Herring
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Karl Heinz Buchegger
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland |
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JKop wrote:
| Quote: |
Big man. You're taking food from the mouths of users of this
newsgroup, many of whom rely on software sales to pay their
salaries...
If this were the 3rd World, then yes I'd feel guilty. But this is the 1st
World - if some-one has trouble eating then it's there own financial
management problem!
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Not really.
I earn my living with programming just as others do with fixing cars.
And of course I expect my customers to pay me just as my mechanic
expects me to pay.
| Quote: |
Anyway, I'm only 17. I've only gotten a full-time job within the last few
months; if I were to pay for all software and books I've used to gain the
knowledge I now have, then I wouldn't have been able to start learning to
programme at the age of 12 as I did. I myself believe that that is a bad
thing. If a 10 year old said to me "I want to programme, but I don't have
$500 for Visual Studio or money to buy a C++ book.", then all my ill-
feelings about "stealing" software go out the window.
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There are free compilers around and also there are free books around.
Nevertheless what happens to the good old institution called 'library'.
I spent half of my university time in the library because I could not
afford the books. For me buying a book ment: cut down food ration.
One man / One year -> ~ 100000 to 120000 dollar
So for a product where 3 man work for 2 years (and thats a small
to midsize project) will cost your company around 600000 dollar or
more. That will be around 40% of total costs, the other 60% will be needed
for marketing and distribution. That totals for 1.5 million dollars.
With 400 bucks per sail, you will need 3750 sailes for this product to
get at least break even. This totaly ignores: Where do the programmers
get their food from in those 2 years? The guy (or the bank) giving you
the money for development wants some interest.
--
Karl Heinz Buchegger
[email]kbuchegg (AT) gascad (DOT) at[/email]
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Steven T. Hatton
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: [even more OT] (was: [OT]Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland) |
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Richard Herring wrote:
--
"If our hypothesis is about anything and not about some one or more
particular things, then our deductions constitute mathematics. Thus
mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what we
are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true." - Bertrand
Russell
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JKop
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Quote: | If this were the 3rd World, then yes I'd feel guilty. But this is the 1st
World - if some-one has trouble eating then it's there own financial
management problem!
Not really.
I earn my living with programming just as others do with fixing cars.
And of course I expect my customers to pay me just as my mechanic
expects me to pay.
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I was meremely referring to the fact that...
I live in Ireland, I can buy 30 eggs for EUR 3.00, that's EUR 0.10 per egg.
The minimum wage in Ireland is EUR 7.00 per hour. As such, for every hour
that one works in Ireland at minimum wage, one could potentially purchase 70
eggs. So let's say that 5 eggs feed you for one day:
7 days in a week, 5 eggs per day = EUR 3.50 per week
To earn EUR 3.50 in one week, at minimum wage one has to work at minimum
wage for 30 minutes per week.
As such, I would hope that my "stealing" software from his doesn't affect
his ability to feed himself.
(Besides that, here in Ireland, we have all sorts of social services. For
instance, if you walk into the Social Services place and say "I haven't
eaten all day, I've no food and I've no money to buy any food", then they
*must* feed you there and then.)
So when I don't pay for things in the 1st World, I don't feel particularly
guilty.
But then if I didn't pay for something off some-one from the 3rd World, and
on account of that, that person was unable to eat as well as if I'd payed
him, then yes I'd feel guilty. I'd pay him twice, three times.
And as regards financial management problems... the minimum weekly wage here
in Ireland at 40 hours a week is approx. EUR 280.00
It's possible that a person spends maybe EUR 200.00 a week on cocaine (I
know one such person who does), so if *he* can't feed himself (no pun
intended), then it's his own problem and I feel no remorse.
End of rant.
-JKop
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Richard Herring
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: [even more OT] (was: [OT]Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland) |
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In message <ysmdnfZ4cKpsXPLcRVn-qA (AT) speakeasy (DOT) net>, Steven T. Hatton
<susudata (AT) setidava (DOT) kushan.aa> writes
Again, why? No references there to Victorian plumbing.
--
Richard Herring
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Tom Widmer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Just wasted $60 on Borland |
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On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:47:25 GMT, JKop <NULL (AT) NULL (DOT) NULL> wrote:
| Quote: |
Big man. You're taking food from the mouths of users of this
newsgroup, many of whom rely on software sales to pay their
salaries...
If this were the 3rd World, then yes I'd feel guilty. But this is the 1st
World - if some-one has trouble eating then it's there own financial
management problem!
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And if you live in the 1st world, then you (or your parents) can
likely afford to pay for the odd bit of software or the odd book. Are
you saying that theft is fine in the 1st world?
| Quote: | Anyway, I'm only 17.
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Your maturity level is well documented on usenet, and no one cares
about your actual age (which can't be confirmed in any case).
I've only gotten a full-time job within the last few
| Quote: | months; if I were to pay for all software and books I've used to gain the
knowledge I now have, then I wouldn't have been able to start learning to
programme at the age of 12 as I did.
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There is plenty of free programming software available, and even a
well known OS for which most development software is free (including
the OS itself). Alternatively, Java programming is easy to get into
for free on any platform, with several of the IDEs being free
software.
| Quote: | I myself believe that that is a bad
thing. If a 10 year old said to me "I want to programme, but I don't have
$500 for Visual Studio or money to buy a C++ book.", then all my ill-
feelings about "stealing" software go out the window. Whip out the CD-R's
and head down the library.
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How about install Linux, GCC and a free IDE like KDevelop? Or install
Windows and Dev-C++? Or Windows and Eclipse or Netbeans?
| Quote: | Now that I *do* have the money, I wouldn't at all mind paying for software
and books.
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That's big of you.
Tom
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Karl Heinz Buchegger
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: |
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JKop wrote:
| Quote: |
If this were the 3rd World, then yes I'd feel guilty. But this is the 1st
World - if some-one has trouble eating then it's there own financial
management problem!
Not really.
I earn my living with programming just as others do with fixing cars.
And of course I expect my customers to pay me just as my mechanic
expects me to pay.
I was meremely referring to the fact that...
I live in Ireland, I can buy 30 eggs for EUR 3.00, that's EUR 0.10 per egg.
The minimum wage in Ireland is EUR 7.00 per hour. As such, for every hour
that one works in Ireland at minimum wage, one could potentially purchase 70
eggs. So let's say that 5 eggs feed you for one day:
7 days in a week, 5 eggs per day = EUR 3.50 per week
To earn EUR 3.50 in one week, at minimum wage one has to work at minimum
wage for 30 minutes per week.
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That's not the whole story:
1) You cannot life from eggs alone 
2) What about your loft, electricity, water, garbage, clothing,
children, heating (oil prices have increased heavily this year), taxes, ...
All of them cost money.
And then: life is not only eating, drinking and having an appartment.
Sometimes we'd love to go to the movies, have a beer with friends,
children have birthday, for people at my age (~40) retirement insurance
has become a serious problem: the state system will break down in 20 to
30 years, so what then? I have to put to the side what I can afford right
now.
| Quote: |
As such, I would hope that my "stealing" software from his doesn't affect
his ability to feed himself.
(Besides that, here in Ireland, we have all sorts of social services. For
instance, if you walk into the Social Services place and say "I haven't
eaten all day, I've no food and I've no money to buy any food", then they
*must* feed you there and then.)
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Among the same here in Austria (as in most european countries). But hand
to the heart: Don't you think that there is something wrong in Denmark if
you work hard all day and yet are dependent on others to feed you?
Besides: All those organizations don't get their money out of thin air.
It is the other population in your country (or the EU, but that means the
other population in Europe) paying all of this.
Nevertheless: A companies duty is not to be a caritative oprganization.
A companies duty is to earn money to pay their employees.
But we are way off topic right now. If I could make you think through
this once again, I've done my job. When you start to
earn your first money you will be surprised how many fix costs you
will have. Things get worse when you marry and start to raise children :-)
And yes: I can understand your situation. It's not easy for a 17 year old.
Keep up your studies. You are doing fine up to now. As we all know:
education is the key to the future.
--
Karl Heinz Buchegger
[email]kbuchegg (AT) gascad (DOT) at[/email]
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