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Xah Lee · Guest

i've started to read python tutorial recently.
http://python.org/doc/2.3.4/tut/tut.html

Here are some quick critique:

quick example:
If the input string is too long, they don't truncate it, but return it
unchanged; this will mess up your column lay-out but that's usually
better than the alternative, which would be lying about a value. (If
you really want truncation you can always add a slice operation, as in
"x.ljust( n)[:n]".

better:
If the input string is too long, they don't truncate it, but return it
unchanged;
-----------------
delete: Reverse quotes (``) are equivalent to repr(), but their use is
discouraged.
-----------------
similarly, many places mentioning uncritical info such as warning or
reference to other languages should be deleted.

the tutorial should be simple, concise, to the point, stand along.
Perhaps 1/5th length of the tutorial should be deleted for better.
Follow the above principles.

at places often a whole paragraph on some so called computer science
jargons should be deleted. They are there more to showcase inane
technicality than do help the reader. (related, many passages with
jargons should be rewritten sans inane jargon. e.g. mutable object.)

one easy way to understand these principles is to compare perl's
documentation or unix man pages to Python's. The formers are often
irrelevant, rambling on, not stand-along (it is written such that it
unnecessarily requires the reader to be knowledgable of lots of other
things). Python docs are much better, but like many computer language
manuals, also suffers from verbiage of tech jargons. (these jargons or
passages about them are usually there to please the authors
themselves).

A exemplary writing in this direction is the Mathematica manual by
Stephen Wolfram. Any intelligent layman sans computer science degree
can read it straightforwardly, and learn unhindered a language that is
tantamount to features of lisp languages. Such documentation is not
difficult to write at all. (contrary to the lot of "computer
scientists" or IT pundits morons.) All it take is some simple
principles outlined above.
Xah
[email]xah (AT) xahlee (DOT) org[/email]
http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html

Jonathan Burd · Guest

Xah Lee wrote:

Diez B. Roggisch · Guest

Xah Lee wrote:

drewc · Guest

You should not be giving such advice! (and the crosspost ... WTF?).

I've been trying to follow along with your perl/python yahoo group, but
your posts are terrible.

Perhaps you should provide the output of the code you post. Then i'd
actually know what i'm trying to achieve. As it is i have to cut/paste
your code into an interpreter just to figure out what it does.

What does this have to do with Lisp? (i'm in c.l.l).

drewc

Xah Lee wrote:

Frank Buss · Guest

drewc <drewc (AT) rift (DOT) com> wrote:

CBFalconer · Guest

Xah Lee wrote:

M Jared Finder · Guest

Xah Lee wrote:

Jeffrey Cunningham · Guest

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:08:50 -0800, Xah Lee wrote:

Xah Lee · Guest

adding to my previosu comment...
In the Python tutorial:
http://python.org/doc/2.3.4/tut/node11.html

the beginning two paragraphs should be deleted. Nobody gives a shit
except a few smug academicians where the author wrote it for pleasing
himself. For 99% of readers, it is incomprehensible and irrelevant.

the first paragraph of 9.1 "A Word About Terminology" is epitome of
masturbation. The entire 9.1 is not necessary.

Large part of 9.2 "Python Scopes and Name Spaces" is again
masturbatory.

--

Most texts in computing are written by authors to defend and showcase
their existence against their peers. In a tutorial, nobody cares how
the language compared to x y and z, or what technicality is it all
about, or some humorous snippet of history only funny to the author
himself.

Particularly for texts in a tutorial context, you want to write it as
simple as possible covering the most useful basic functionalities and
concepts, and self-contained. Not showcasing your knowledge of history
of languages or your linguistic lineage byways.

For example this chapter 9 on Objects, it is not difficult to write it
without making a show of lingoes. One simply write what is of Python,
without thinking about relation to xyz languages or the "computer
science" establishment and their ways of thinkings of namespaces and
scopes and dynamic and statics and inheritances ... fucking bags of
shit.

Also, in the computing industry, documentations and tutorials often
lacks examples. Especially important in tutorials. Be fewer in words,
more in examples. (for example, unix man pages are full of arcane
abstract syntax specifications and inner-working technicalities while
most don't contain a single example of usage that is much needed.)

also, this does not mean beginning to write for dummies as the highly
successful series of "xyz for Dummies" books. These are successful
because the corpus of textbook writers are all inclined and habituated
to chalk up to jargons and intellectualization on the accounts of their
own esteem and careers. Dummy books are moronic because they assumed
the general readers are morons.

PS Another illustrative case is the official Java Tutorial. Python
tutorial is to the point on the whole. The Java Tutorial is completely
asinine. Chalking up to rocket sciences every chance with unhelpful and
misleading drivel.
Xah
[email]xah (AT) xahlee (DOT) org[/email]
http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html

CBFalconer · Guest

Xah Lee wrote:

Dan Perl · Guest

"Xah Lee" <xah (AT) xahlee (DOT) org> wrote

alex23 · Guest

Chris Mattern · Guest

alex23 wrote:

Jonathan Burd · Guest

Xah Lee wrote:

Xah Lee · Guest

in my previous two messages, i've criticized the inanity of vast
majority of language documentations and tutorials in the industry. I've
used the Python tutorial's chapter on class as an example. I've
indicated that proper tutorial should be simple, covering just common
cases, be self-contained, and be example based. Documenting or covering
the language's functionalities manifest as it is. An exemplary case of
this style i've indicated is Stephen Wolfram Mathematica documentation.

Following is a tutorial on Python's classes. It is part of a
a-Python-a-day mailing list. As an example, it shows what i mean by
covering the language's functionalities as is, without needing to chalk
up to rocket sciences. If expanded slightly and edited, it can supplant
sections 9.0 to 9.4 of the Python tutorial. Languages Tutorials should
follow this style.

---------------
From: [email]xah (AT) xahlee (DOT) org[/email]
Subject: [perl-python] 20050124 classes and objects
Date: January 24, 2005 6:44:14 AM PST
To: [email]perl-python (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com[/email]

# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
# Python

# in Python, one can define a boxed set
# of data and functions, which are
# traditionally known as "class".

# in the following, we define a set of data
# and functions as a class, and name it xxx
©class xxx:
© "a class extempore! (^_^)"
© i=1 # i'm a piece of data
© def okaydokey(self): return "okaydokey"
© def square(self,a): return a**a

# in the following,
# we create an object, of the class xxx.
# also known as "instantiate a class".
x = xxx()

# data or functions defined in a class
# are called the class's attributes or
# methods.
# to use them, append a dot and
# their name after the object's name.
print 'value of attribute i is:', x.i
print "3 squared is:", x.square(3)
print "okaydokey called:", x.okaydokey()

# in the definition of function inside a
# class, the first parameter "self" is
# necessary. (you'll know why when you need to)

# the first line in the class definition
# is the class's documentation. It can
# be accessed thru the __doc__
# attribute.
print "xxx's doc string is:", x.__doc__

# one can change data inside the class
x.i = 400

# one can also add new data to the class
x.j=4
print x.j

# or even override a method
x.square = 333
# (the following line will no longer work)
# print "3 squared is:", x.square(3)

# in Python, one must be careful not to
# overwrite data or methods defined in a
# class.

#-----------------------

# for a obfuscated treatment with a few
# extra info, see
# http://python.org/doc/2.3.4/tut/node11.html

# in Python terminal, type help() then
# topic CLASSES to read about existing
# datatypes as classes, and classes in
# Python

# try to write a class with one data of
# integer and two functions, one
# increases it by 1, one decreases it by
# 1. note: inside a class definition,
# to refer to data inside itself use
# self. e.g. self.i
Xah
[email]xah (AT) xahlee (DOT) org[/email]
http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html