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Does STLPort provide TR1?

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Ganny
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:26 pm Post subject: Does STLPort provide TR1?

I want to use TR1 components - does STLport provide TR1 support? -Ganesh [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]

P.J. Plauger
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Does STLPort provide TR1?

"Ganny" <sgganesh (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

I want to use TR1 components - does STLport provide TR1 support?

No.

P.J. Plauger
Dinkumware, Ltd.
http://www.dinkumware.com

[ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ]
[ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]

Ganny
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Does STLPort provide TR1?

Thanks, what are the other vendors supporting tr1? -Ganesh [ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ] [ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]

P.J. Plauger
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Does STLPort provide TR1?

"Ganny" <sgganesh (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Thanks, what are the other vendors supporting tr1?

Metrowerks has been working on bits of TR1 for some time
now. You'll have to ask them what's available with their
compiler these days.

You can get several of the pieces directly from boost,
though I don't know how closely they match what was
finally accepted for TR1 these days. The differences are
probably small and mostly unimportant.

Libstdc++, the library that ships with gcc, has a few bits
of TR1 libraries from boost included in their new V4.0,
on an "as is" basis.

Dinkumware will be shipping a *full* TR1 with our next
C/C++ library release. AFAIK, we're the only people aiming
for 100 per cent conformance, including the special math
and numerous C99 added functions. We're busy packaging, so
it'll be available Real Soon Now (TM).

P.J. Plauger
Dinkumware, Ltd.
http://www.dinkumware.com

[ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ]
[ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]

Ganny
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Does STLPort provide TR1?

Quote:

You can get several of the pieces directly from boost,
though I don't know how closely they match what was
finally accepted for TR1 these days. The differences are
probably small and mostly unimportant.
Does Boost licence allows compiler vendors to ship only tr1 part of

Boost?

Since STLPort and Boost both are open source, is it possible that
the tr1 libraries can be provided with that?

Quote:

Dinkumware will be shipping a *full* TR1 with our next
C/C++ library release. AFAIK, we're the only people aiming
for 100 per cent conformance, including the special math
and numerous C99 added functions. We're busy packaging, so
it'll be available Real Soon Now (TM).
Thats cool!

-Ganesh

[ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ]
[ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]

Gianluca Silvestri
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Does STLPort provide TR1?

Quote:

Thanks,
Gianluca

[ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ]
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P.J. Plauger
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Does STLPort provide TR1?

"Ganny" <sgganesh (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

You can get several of the pieces directly from boost,
though I don't know how closely they match what was
finally accepted for TR1 these days. The differences are
probably small and mostly unimportant.

Does Boost licence allows compiler vendors to ship only tr1 part of
Boost?

Well, yes and no. The Boost license "allows" such a practice,
but I've talked to more than one company that can't live with
the requirements of the various Boost license requirements
in a commercial environment.

Quote:

Since STLPort and Boost both are open source, is it possible that
the tr1 libraries can be provided with that?

Sort of. Please note that only a smallish portion of TR1
comes from Boost. If that happens to be the portion you
want, you're in luck. Otherwise ...

Quote:

P.J. Plauger
Dinkumware, Ltd.
http://www.dinkumware.com

[ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ]
[ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]

David Abrahams
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Does STLPort provide TR1?

"Ganny" <sgganesh (AT) gmail (DOT) com> writes:

Quote:

Yes. Also, John Maddock has been preparing the Boost TR1 subset as a
package.

Quote:

Since STLPort and Boost both are open source, is it possible that
the tr1 libraries can be provided with that?

Some of them, anyway. I think there are a few TR1 libraries that
wouldn't be covered that way.

--
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

[ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ]
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David Abrahams
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Does STLPort provide TR1?

"P.J. Plauger" <pjp (AT) dinkumware (DOT) com> writes:

Quote:

"Ganny" <sgganesh (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1120657546.193435.138090 (AT) g43g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com...

You can get several of the pieces directly from boost,
though I don't know how closely they match what was
finally accepted for TR1 these days. The differences are
probably small and mostly unimportant.

Does Boost licence allows compiler vendors to ship only tr1 part of
Boost?

Well, yes and no. The Boost license "allows" such a practice,

So then, yes.

Quote:

but I've talked to more than one company that can't live with the
requirements of the various Boost license requirements in a
commercial environment.

That's despite the fact that we've worked with our lawyers and bent
over backwards to remove obstacles. It seems that some corporate
lawyers will insist on taking the most exquisitely twisted reading of
simple legal language.

Incidentally, I've heard from some people that Dinkumware's license
restrictions are an obstacle, too Wink

. You can't win. Or maybe,
because a variety of different license options exist, the consumer
wins. ;-)

--
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

[ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ]
[ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]

P.J. Plauger
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Does STLPort provide TR1?

"David Abrahams" <dave (AT) boost-consulting (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

"P.J. Plauger" <pjp (AT) dinkumware (DOT) com> writes:

"Ganny" <sgganesh (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:1120657546.193435.138090 (AT) g43g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com...

You can get several of the pieces directly from boost,
though I don't know how closely they match what was
finally accepted for TR1 these days. The differences are
probably small and mostly unimportant.

Does Boost licence allows compiler vendors to ship only tr1 part of
Boost?

Well, yes and no. The Boost license "allows" such a practice,

So then, yes.

No, a qualified yes, as I said up front. The qualifier follows.

Quote:

That may be true, but the bigger problem in "free" sofware is
uneven licensing. The basic Boost license is indeed a model
of simplicity, but it is apparently not evenly applied. You
yourself said, in your previous posting:

: > Since STLPort and Boost both are open source, is it possible that
: > the tr1 libraries can be provided with that?
:
: Some of them, anyway. I think there are a few TR1 libraries that
: wouldn't be covered that way.

And *that's* what drives corporate lawyers buggy. (See also:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html

for an overview of the larger licensing problem in the free
software community.)

Quote:

Incidentally, I've heard from some people that Dinkumware's license
restrictions are an obstacle, too Wink

Doubtless true. But at least the corporate lawyers know that they
can negotiate (small) changes with us, that they are in good
company with some rather large software vendors, and that they
have someone who'll answer the phone. That's how we can compete
with free software -- on price.

Quote:

You can't win. Or maybe,
because a variety of different license options exist, the consumer
wins. Wink

Indeed. I'm all in favor of people having a broad assortment of
options, including free software.

P.J. Plauger
Dinkumware, Ltd.
http://www.dinkumware.com

[ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ]
[ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]

David Abrahams
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:37 am Post subject: Re: Does STLPort provide TR1?

"P.J. Plauger" <pjp (AT) dinkumware (DOT) com> writes:

Quote:

Does Boost licence allows compiler vendors to ship only tr1 part of
Boost?

Well, yes and no. The Boost license "allows" such a practice,

So then, yes.

No, a qualified yes, as I said up front. The qualifier follows.

The OP was obviously, IMO, asking about what practices are compatible
with the Boost license requirements, and that question deserves a
straightforward answer.

It's certainly fair to follow up by pointing out that some companies
may have other problems with our licensing, but it didn't seem fair to
mix that up with the answer to the original question.

Quote:

but I've talked to more than one company that can't live with the
requirements of the various Boost license requirements in a
commercial environment.

That's despite the fact that we've worked with our lawyers and bent
over backwards to remove obstacles. It seems that some corporate
lawyers will insist on taking the most exquisitely twisted reading of
simple legal language.

That may be true, but the bigger problem in "free" sofware is
uneven licensing. The basic Boost license is indeed a model
of simplicity, but it is apparently not evenly applied.

We're working hard on evening it out, but yes, that's true. There are
a few people we've been unable to contact and get approval from to
change the license from whatever the license started as (something
compliant with the original Boost License Requirements) to the current
official Boost license.

Quote:

You yourself said, in your previous posting:

: > Since STLPort and Boost both are open source, is it possible that
: > the tr1 libraries can be provided with that?
:
: Some of them, anyway. I think there are a few TR1 libraries that
: wouldn't be covered that way.

And *that's* what drives corporate lawyers buggy.

Yes, I know what you mean (that's why we're working hard to even out
our licensing), but you're misinterpreting what I wrote. When I wrote
"I think there are a few that wouldn't be covered that way," I meant,
"I think there are a few TR1 libraries whose functionality you
wouldn't acquire by picking up STLPort and Boost."

When I mentioned "twisted reading of simple legal language" I had in
mind something so crazy that in fact I don't want to describe it here
just to be sure the principle won't make it's way into the popular
consciousness and cause a real mess for _lots_ of licensors.

--
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

[ See http://www.gotw.ca/resources/clcm.htm for info about ]
[ comp.lang.c++.moderated. First time posters: Do this! ]

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